PD ROM 1/PD ROM Volume I - Macintosh Software from BMUG (1988).iso/Electronic Messages/USEnet Digests/Hyper-Hackers Digests/Hyper-Hackers 01.32

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                   Hyper-Hackers Digest, Vol. 1 #32
                            June 14, 1988

                              Subjects:

                        DIAL dropping dtr ???
             Scrolling fields to their last virtual line
                     Re: CD ROMs and Video Disks
                         Unix Hypercard Stack
                   Has anyone created "Help Stack"
                     Re: Print Report Problem...
                     Thoroughly protecting stacks
                      HC is mean with mouseUp's
                   Re: Thoroughly protecting stacks
                          Old Bug in HC1.0.1
                          A Little Question
                     Writing cards to a text file
             Hypercard document opening across AppleShare
                   Re: Writing cards to a text file
                   Re: Writing cards to a text file
           Re: Hypercard document opening across AppleShare
                   Re: Help with: "Print Report..."
                  HyperCard Buttons and Mouse Events
                    Need result of Save a Copy...
         Faster HyperCard Phone stack -- script code enclosed
                           OOP mailing list
                           HyperCard Menus
                        SORT changed in HC 1.2
                   SFO HyperExpo and V1.2.1 bug fix
            database program wanted for cataloging albums
                      Re: SORT changed in HC 1.2
                             New Stack...
                           Various Replies

[Moderator's note: Due to news failures here at Sun, some messages
 to this digest were lost. My apologies for this, but there's nothing
 I can do about it -- chuq]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Glenn S. Tenney)
Subject: DIAL dropping dtr ???
Date: 3 Jun 88 08:17:54 GMT

I should hope this is old hat:  Running on an SE now, I find that
I can't DIAL any numbers.  HC starts dialing the number and then
just drops DTR which hangs up the phone (before finishing dialing.)

Huh?  What gives?  More importantly, how can I fix it?

HC 1.1, System 5, SE, US Robotics

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Scrolling fields to their last virtual line
Date: 3 Jun 88 14:46:55 GMT

Writing a script to scroll to the last line of a field is an easy
task when all logical lines--those delimited by return characters--
contain less characters than the field's virtual line.  Eg:

on openCard
  get the textHeight of fieldID
  put it * (the number of lines of fieldID -1) into top
  if the wideMargins of fieldID is "true" then add 4 to top
  set the scroll of fieldID to top
end openCard

I use this script to go to the bottom of my phone log.  A problem
arises when the lines wrap around in the field.  The above script
will then scroll short to what it should have been.  Anyone knows
how to get the number of virtual lines or see a way to fix the
script?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] ( George Bray)
Subject: Re: CD ROMs and Video Disks
Date: 4 Jun 88 12:00:05 GMT

> >I strongly suggest that anyone looking for a videodisk driver out of
> >Hypercard get The Voyager Company's (213-474-0032) "The Voyager
> >Videostack: A Toolkit for Interactive Video".

So what videodisks are available now? I saw Apple Australia showing
a disk with all sorts of paintings, artists and information on it.
WOW!@ If thats what you call interactive video I can hardly wait
for someone to lend me one (he said displaying his postal address ;-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Dale Dougherty)
Subject: Unix Hypercard Stack
Date: 6 Jun 88 19:15:16 GMT

"UNIX in a Nutshell" HyperCard Stack

I've been wondering how much interest there is out there
for a HyperCard Stack containing a lot of useful
information for users of UNIX.  We are publishers of
Nutshell Handbooks.  One of our titles,
"UNIX in a Nutshell," is a complete quick reference
containing sections on commands, shells, editors,
nroff/troff requests and macro packages, and other facilities.
I have done a prototype of a HyperCard stack that includes
this information.  I think it has
several important benefits over a printed quick reference:

1) Accessing information on-line where you
can easily read or print individual cards;

2) Searching for commands or functions by name or by keyword;

3) Customizing the stack by adding new or local
commands and removing unused or inapplicable commands.

In addition, we would probably provide stacks for System V, Berkeley,
and A/UX.  If your system is a hybrid, you could mix and match
from System V and Berkeley to create your own stack.

This stack would be a natural for A/UX users but
I understand that HyperCard does not yet run under A/UX
on the Mac II.  Nonetheless, I think there are a fair number
of UNIX users who are also Mac users,
perhaps using the Mac to communicate with a remote UNIX system.
For instance, IF you had enough memory and were using Multifinder, you
could open the HyperCard stack during a communications session with a
UNIX system.

Ideally, UNIX would have a general-purpose tool like HyperCard
for presenting information on-line. Perhaps in the
not-too-distant future, there will be Hypercard-compatible
engines written for UNIX machines that would allow this stack to live
where it rightly belongs.  Until then, HyperCard is available on the Mac.
I hope that a crossover product like the one we are developing might help
to seed the UNIX market.

Please let me know what level of interest you have in seeing
"UNIX in a Nutshell" Hypercard Stack.  Do you think
others are interested?  Is it worth developing further?
Any remarks on the possible use and development of this HyperCard
stack will be greatly appreciated.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Peter Steele)
Subject: Has anyone created "Help Stack"
Date: 6 Jun 88 11:25:35 GMT

Has anyone made or is thinking of making help stacks for
existing applications. We have an AppleTalk network here
(MacJANET) and of course not all programs have sufficient
on-line help. I've thought about using Hypercard and set
up some sort of help facility.. But, AppleTalk is so slow
I wonder about how responsive such a system would
be. Has anyone tried this. If someone has a stack like
this I'd like to see it. Thanks.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Tim Whalen)
Subject: Re: Print Report Problem...
Date: 6 Jun 88 19:34:55 GMT

I just encountered this bug recently too.  Typically, page 13 of a long report
will be blank with no way to reprint just that page.  Inserting dummy cards
just before the blank page sometimes does a work-around.  Incidentally, I
haven't found the time to upgrade to 1.1 (or is it 1.2 now?)  This is probably
already fixed.  I'm sure sophisticated HyperBabble routines can do all sorts
of nifty printing formatting, but it's just a quick and dirty mailing DB for
my wedding in June and I don't have time for bells, whistles, etc.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Thoroughly protecting stacks
Date: 7 Jun 88 04:59:14 GMT

For those interested in giving a stack protection beyond that of the built
in password, the following should help (and will open a real can of worms!)

put an "on domenu" message handler in your stack script.  This lets you
intercept just about anything.  If you add a "params" container to your
handler, you can see what the menu request was and act accordingly.

WARNING: Make sure you first leave yourself a way out (a secret button or
something) or you can very easily lock up your stack with no way to get
back in.

You can also intercept the arrowkey, returnkey, enterkey, etc. messages.

We have so far found no way to break into or go against the constraints
of a stack protected with these techniques.  If anyone comes up with a way
to do it, please let me know.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Sean Hayes)
Subject: HC is mean with mouseUp's
Date: 7 Jun 88 14:15:13 GMT

some naive questions concerning HyperCard (only v 1.01)

*1 Why is it that mouseUp is only given to a button if the mouse
is in the same region as the button started out in. If the button moves
I think its more sensible to see if the mouse is still over the button
on release REGARDLESS OF WHERE THE BUTTON IS.
 Is this the same in later versions of HyperCard?
 Is there a sensible way of getting a mouseUp to a button
 in a different location from when it recieved the mouseDown?

*2 What is the recommended way to copy/delete buttons? when I try:
 ...
 choose button tool
 click at loc of the target
 doMenu Copy Button
 doMenu Paste Button
 set the loc of last button to newH,newV
 ...

Sometimes it works, sometimes I get a "Cant find menu entry Copy Button.." error

If I put a wait after choosing the button tool it fails less often the
longer the wait. If I replace the target with the clickLoc or the mouseLoc I get
 the
same problem. Anyone any ideas?

*3 What is the sensible way of deleting a button on a card, if it causes
   a jump to a different card, such that the user doesnt see it go until coming
   back to the card, but does see the visual effect of the transition?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Dan Allen)
Subject: Re: Thoroughly protecting stacks
Date: 8 Jun 88 04:14:38 GMT

There is one easy way to get around ANY executing script, even a
"DoMenu" handler: Command Period.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Harry S. Delugach)
Subject: Old Bug in HC1.0.1
Date: 8 Jun 88 14:01:00 GMT

This is probably long-since discussed here, but I have encountered a nagging
problem: showLines doesn't seem to work with scrolling fields.

That is to say, the showLines attribute is set properly, but in no case do
lines appear. Not a fatal problem, to be sure, but a little annoying.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Daryl Schmoldt)
Subject: A Little Question
Date: 8 Jun 88 18:08:24 GMT

        I know that this is an issue that has been brought up before but
unfortunately it was something that I wasn't interested in at the time
at which it was being discussed.  Anyways, what I am interested in
doing is creating a screen in the spirit of the HyperCard "Go Recent"
command in which a miniaturized set of relevant cards are shown and
the user can then select any one of the cards by clicking on the
miniaturized version of a given card.

        If there is a straight-forward or even a not-so-straight-forward
way of doing this which someone can explain to me I would be most
grateful.  Please send replys to me rather than posting them to the
net being as this issue has already been discussed on the net.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Writing cards to a text file
Date: 9 Jun 88 15:45:59 GMT

I just completed a database that contains over 500 records and need a better
alternative to a subroutine. What I want to do is write all the information
I have on all of my cards to a file using the open file and write commands.
The problem is that in order to write the next I actually have to be
on that physical card. As you can imagine, trying to write 500+ cards takes
a long time... Is there any way to do this other than the way I do it?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Milliron)
Subject: Hypercard document opening across AppleShare
Date: 9 Jun 88 17:35:26 GMT

The following hypercard command:

        open "docname" with "appname"

does not work when the document is on an AppleShare volume and everything else
(stack, HyperCard, application) is on the startup volume (in this case, an
internal hard disk).  If the document is on the startup volume, or even on
another disk, such as a floppy, the command works fine.  I have tried this
with two different applications (4D and MS Word) and each one reports that
the document file could not be found.  Again, this happens only if the doc
is on an AppleShare volume.

The configuration is:  several Mac SE's networked with AppleShare via PhoneNet.
The file server is a CMS-60.

The specific scenario is that HyperCard is being used as a "finder" shell to
launch other app's with specific documents.

If anyone has experienced the same thing, or if you've tried the same thing and
it has worked for you where it has not for me, please let me know.  Also,
if you know of a fix or a workaround, I need that too.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Dan Allen)
Subject: Re: Writing cards to a text file
Date: 10 Jun 88 00:34:03 GMT

>What I want to do is write all the information
>I have on all of my cards to a file using the open file and write commands.

Well, I don't really know how you are doing it, but here is a generic
script that I use to export text from all BACKGROUND fields.  It creates
an ASCII file in the TAB TAB TAB CR type of format.  It also strips all
carriage returns found in fields, leaving CR to be unique as a record
separator.  (Tab is the field separator).

on mouseUp
  put the short name of this stack & ".tx" into defaultName
  ask "Export text to what file?" with defaultName
  if it is empty then exit mouseUp
  put it into fileName
  open file fileName
  go to first card
  repeat for the number of cards
    repeat with i = 1 to the number of fields
      put field i into temp
      repeat
        if return is not in temp then exit repeat
        put space into char offset(return,temp) of temp
      end repeat
      write temp to file fileName
      if i<> the number of fields then
        write tab to file fileName
      else
        write return to file fileName
      end if
    end repeat
    go to next card
  end repeat
  close file fileName
end mouseUp

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Kurtzman)
Subject: Re: Writing cards to a text file
Date: 9 Jun 88 20:47:31 GMT

>The problem is that in order to write the next I actually have to be
>on that physical card. As you can imagine, trying to write 500+ cards takes
>a long time... Is there any way to do this other than the way I do it?

Use container expressions such as
     "bkgnd field 1 of card i"
Where i is the number of the card.
You don't have to be "on" the card in order to access its data.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Daniel Milliron)
Subject: Re: Hypercard document opening across AppleShare
Date: 10 Jun 88 23:45:23 GMT

> The following hypercard command:
>
>       open "docname" with "appname"
>
> does not work when the document is on an AppleShare

The problem is not that *HyperCard* can't find the document.  Even if it
couldn't find it, HyperCard would ask me where it is.  The problem is that
the *launched application* (4D or MS Word) can't find it once the app has
started.  Again, this only happens if the doc is on the AppleShare file
server.  The app starts up (complete with opening greetings or menu bar
drawing) and then gives me an error message that it can't find the file.
The two apps I've tried give different style alerts, but both have the
same meaning.

BTW, if everything (HyperCard, Home, the application, and the document) are on
the file server, no problems occur.  This configuration is not acceptable,
however, because the network is too slow.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Bryan Menell)
Subject: Re: Help with: "Print Report..."
Date: 9 Jun 88 17:47:10 GMT

     At the Spring Developers Conference in San Jose, I asked some
of the HyperCard gurus (David Leffler in particular if I remember
correctly) about the printing problems. He said the real problem
was in the Macintosh, not HyperCard. He said they weren't really
sure what the problem was, and were open to any suggestions from
developers. There is also a limitation to printing. I think HC
can only print 128 pages maximum.
     I would like to mention that one of the greatest (I think)
things about this new 1.2. series release is that EVERYTHING
is returned in the result. No more error codes popping up on
the screen to the user. This is especially handy for
debugging external commands and functions. You will just get an error
returned, instead of the big la bamba.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Lih)
Subject: HyperCard Buttons and Mouse Events
Date: 10 Jun 88 02:45:09 GMT

I thought I would share with you something I just found out about
buttons and catching the mouse up.  Pardon me if this has been posted
before.

I was working on an animated button, where there are two buttons lying
on top of each other, both of them opaque.  When there is a mouse down
on the button in front, I wanted to show (make visible) the button
underneath the present button, and after the person let the mouse up,
I wanted to show the original button that he clicked on.
Easy enough, right?

Well, I wrote the following script:

on mouseDown
  set visible of card button "Front" to false  -- exposes the button in back
end mouseDown

on mouseUp
  set visible of card button "Front" to true  -- brings original button back
end mouseUp

A logical first attempt at trying to do such a task.  Well, it seems
that if the person doing the clicking clicks down inside the button
and then moves the pointer out of the button and then mouse Ups, then
the 'on mouseDown' does not get called.  This thereby jammed my button
into showing the other button.

I pondered a bit and then looked into the APDA HyperTalk guide and
discovered that you can issue the command: "wait until <condition>".

Well, says I, why don't I try using this instead?

So I wrote:

on mouseDown
  set visible of card button "Front" to false  -- exposes the button in back
  wait until the mouse is up                   -- wait for the up!!
  set visible of card button "Front" to true   -- brings original button back
end mouseUp

This works great...where ever you move the mouse on the screen before
your mouse button comes up, the script will catch it.  It is something
that is not hard or advanced, but something that will help write
cleaner environments.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Josh Hodas)
Subject: Need result of Save a Copy...
Date: 12 Jun 88 17:27:57 GMT

OK guys and gals, here's a problem.

We need to execute a doMenu "Save a Copy..." from a script, this is easy.
But we need to know the pathname of the copy typed by the user.

I see two possible solutions:

a magical incantaion to get Hypercard to tell us the name specified  (Wouldn't
it be nice if "the result" in general contained this type of information.

An XCMDD to copy files used in conjunction with the NewFileName XFCN, to sim-
ulate domenu "Save a Copy..."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Meyer)
Subject: Faster HyperCard Phone stack -- script code enclosed
Date: 12 Jun 88 19:37:21 GMT

I use Focal Point in HyperCard to dial the phone (look it up in address
book, then press dial button and let my modem go to work).  With HyperCard
1.1, the Phone stack comes with a field for the user to put local prefixes
in -- 3 number codes so that the phone stack can figure out if the call is
long distance or not.  Rather nice, but in Seattle there are approximately
50 prefixes that are local to me; the Phone stack goes through each one
until it finds the match (no Find command is used).  This is really slow,
especially when you're dialing a number with a "932" or such prefix.

Well, I made a few quick changes to the Phone stack script (located under
the Stack menu option) which speed up the dialing to an almost instantaneous
process.  Used the Find command; imagine you could use some of the new "Find
word" or "Find string" under HyperCard 1.2, but since all the prefixes are 3
numbers long, and seperated by spaces or commas (they should be), there
really isn't any reason to.

Here's a before/after listing of the script.  I think you'll find this
useful if you use HyperCard to dial your phone for you.

Original script from the Phone Stack:

  else if dialLength = 7 then
    put char 1 to 3 of dialNumber into prefix
    repeat with index = 1 to number of words in field "Local Prefixes"
      if word index of field "Local Prefixes" is prefix then
        doDial field preamble & dialNumber
        exit dial
      end if
    end repeat
    answer "Is this a local (non-toll) call?" with No or Yes

My alterations to said stack:

  else if dialLength = 7 then
    put char 1 to 3 of dialNumber into prefix
    find prefix in field "Local Prefixes"
    if the result is empty then
      doDial field preamble & dialNumber
      exit dial
    end if
    answer "Is this a local (non-toll) call?" with No or Yes

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (N.)
Subject: OOP mailing list
Date: 13 Jun 88 01:14:19 GMT

Everybody in Canada who is interested in the Object-Oriented Programming
(OOP) and/or in the behavioral design research as related to the
development of human-machine interfaces (however remotely connected to
these subjects) - please reply to my e-mail address.  The long-term
objective - organization of a corresponding Canadian bulletin board.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Lih)
Subject: HyperCard Menus
Date: 12 Jun 88 18:14:02 GMT

Is there an XCMD or easy way to make a popup menu in a HyperCard stack?

I get a list of names, and I want to be able to have the user click on
a button and then a menu popups beneath it with those names as
choices.  The user can then select whatever name it wants from the
menu.  Since a dialog box can only handle a few items, I wanted to do
it with a pop-up menu.

Any source code, XCMDs or friendly advice would be appreciated...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Nicholas Spies)
Subject: SORT changed in HC 1.2
Date: 13 Jun 88 15:30:32 GMT

Time was, in HyperCard 1.0.1 and 1.1, that you could pass a function as
the "with" parameter to sort, as well as chunk expressions. It seems that
HyperCard 1.2 doesn't like this, and instead puts up and error dialog saying
something to the effect that "xx is an invalid expression on every card".

The value of passing a function to sort is that you used to be able to
perform parsing and concatenation of strings used as the sort keys. For
instance, if you want to sort a stack of names by last name, and yet want
the first and optional second and third names to be significant in the sort,
and at the same time ignore any instances of "Jr", chunk expressions just
won't suffice--you need to write a function to message the names into the
desired order before they are looked at by sort, which sorts them.

Although using a function as the sort parameter was not documented, it worked
fine in 1.0.1 and 1.1, and it is a consistant generalization of using "&" to
concatentate chunk expressions for sort (which is how I found out that it
worked in the first place). I can't imagine why this capability was removed
in 1.2, and sincerely hope that it is reinstanted, and documented, in future
versions.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Schwer)
Subject: SFO HyperExpo and V1.2.1 bug fix
Date: 14 Jun 88 00:57:21 GMT


        I attended HyperExpo in San Francisco over the weekend. It seemed
poorly attended; I estimate <1000 since the large session room was only
filled once when Bill Atkinson spoke about V1.2, but it was worth the $25
registration fee.
        Bill Atkinson mentioned there is a bug fix release called V1.2.1
which fixes a problem with V1.2 and ImageWriter printers and a few other
unmentionables. The deal is take your V1.2 disk to your retailer and they
give you the V1.2.1 disk. I don't know if you get to keep V1.2 or if it's
a one for one trade.
        The hotest stack on the Expo floor was ManHole (by PROLOG I think).
It and adventure/exploring game for pre-readers and the best demonstration
of what HyperWare is really capable of doing. The graphics were outstanding and
the 7 year old I saw using it seemed to be enjoying himself.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Joe Kwan)
Subject: database program wanted for cataloging albums
Date: 13 Jun 88 21:20:35 GMT

Two neophyte users, one with no experience w/ computer experience
at all, the other with no programming experiece, are seeking to create
a data base for the catalog for their LARGE record collection (LPs
and 78 rpms).  Nine fields, probably six of which would be used
as search keys for reporting, and around 15,000 records (as in
Database Records).  We have some questions which we haven't been
able to answer, and while we appreciate related information, we
can't run before we learn to walk and a lot of the information we've
received thus far is unfortunately beyond our comprehension.

#1.  Could HyperCard run this volume at a reasonable/acceptable rate?
     Does anyone out there have first-hand experience w/ this?  What
     hardware is needed?

#2.  If not HyperCard, would FoxBase, Fourth Dimension, dBase Mac,
     Omnis 3, or Helix (other?) require much programming?

Is it unreasonable to hope that two greenhorns could, without devoting
all our waking hours, reach an intelligent decision as to what to buy
(we're starting w/ nothing and a budget of about $3,500-$4,000), and
be entering data and generating reports by Sept. 1?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Kurtzman)
Subject: Re: SORT changed in HC 1.2
Date: 13 Jun 88 18:53:07 GMT

>Time was, in HyperCard 1.0.1 and 1.1, that you could pass a function as
>the "with" parameter to sort, as well as chunk expressions. It seems that
>HyperCard 1.2 doesn't like this, and instead puts up and error dialog saying
>something to the effect that "xx is an invalid expression on every card".

It would be funny if this has really changed. I recall a Mr. HyperTalk (forgot
his name, Dan something-r-other) posting that suggested passing the
random number function to "shuffle" the cards in a stack.

It would be nice if Dan would answer this one. I made up my mind a while back
that I would put off buying any book on hypertalk until I found one that
documents this function. My reasoning is that it is an obscure usage of sort
and anyone who knows about it possibly knows alot. Of course, if this is
no longer true, my heuristic is in error.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Mark Murphy)
Subject: New Stack...
Date: 13 Jun 88 18:17:09 GMT

   I need to creat e a new stack from script without user interaction.  If I
issue a doMenu "New Stack...", the user is presented with dialog asking for a
name and whether or not to copy the background.  For my application, this is
undesirable.  Does anyone have an idea on how to accomplish this?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [e-mail] (Bryan Menell)
Subject: Various Replies
Date: 13 Jun 88 20:47:10 GMT

>showLines doesn't seem to work with scrolling fields.

     Your question was brought up at HyperExpo also, and Bill Sez that
is because he is relying on textEdit to handle all the field information.

>Has AHUG written any more Windoid issues. I have six.

     I just talked to David Leffler of the HyperCard testing team and
past president of AHUG. He is also editor of Windoid. He has been
trying to get issue #7 together for a while, but has been delayed.
He says he will have it done in the next week or two. It will be
about 20 pages long, as opposed to the usual 5 to 10. He has been
exceptionally busy getting version 1.2.1 out. I personally enjoy
the Windoid issues a lot.

>"Save a copy..." from a script.

     A fellow by the name of Guy de Picciotto has written several
XCMD's and XFCN's including ones to copy files, create new folders,
read the disk catalog etc. It is available on CompuServe or GEnie.
For details, check out a stack I created called the "XCMD Register."
It contains a 40K stack telling you about 65 XCMD's and XFCN's
what their legal status is, and what their download names are on
the two services. You can also get it free with several XCMD's
by sending me a disk and an SASE. Else send a check for $4 to cover
disk, mailing, postage, and handling. There was an article in MacWEEK
about my service for further info.

ACTION>